Hey guys, I'm currently in possesion of a Logitech G25 system and I'm reasonably happy with it. Recently however, I have noticed little issues starting to creep into different aspects of it's construction. In particular, I've now had to abandon the use of the sequential shifter mode because it incessently skips gears in both directions, making driving almost impossible. I fear that the H-Shift pattern and eventually the paddles will go the same way. Evidentally, the whole system (being a plastic fantastic piece of kit) will probably shake it'self to pieces. I have neither the ability nor the inclination to start pulling things apart soldering iron in hand.

What I'm going to ask is a relatively simple question and I'm going to ask it here rather than at rsc forums because having spent some time observing the threads and posts here at R2P I feel I can trust you guys when it comes to asking for advice.

I'm considering going about collecting a new sim setup. Probably starting with the pedals as they would appear to be the cheapest (and therefore least financialy risky) element of the setup to start with. Apart from the construction and customer support benefits (which after reading through this entire forum seem to be of a high-standard) are ECCI and indeed any of the specialist manufacturers products going to make me quicker? edit: or rather, allow me to reach closer to my potential?

Obviously, I realise that no improvement in such matters is ever going to come over-night in the same way that upgrading from an Epiphone LP to a Gibson USA standard is never going to make you a greater player over night. What I want to know however, is whether the higher degree of accuracy or resolution (whatever the technical term is) will actually prove to be recognisable in benefit. In the same sense as does the AAA maple top of the USA Les Paul justify the doubling in cost?

...I think I may have got a little convoluted in the use of the guitars in my examples but would you ECCI users be able to shed any light?

My opinion.
I believe (from reading) a great deal of the true "aliens" use plastic Momo pedals, they have so little resistance you can just use your toe to position the pedal exactly where you want it to a millimeter. And of course they have extreme motor control skills.

I have the ECCI 3 pedal set and it's fabulous to quote Big Gay Al. I still maintain I am going to upgrade to a Cannon set when I get around to it.
But either way that's because I enjoy simming for the "simulation" part of the experience, not because I have to win or do something else.
Both the ECCI's and CST's are fairly lifelike with the pressures and motions and positioning, but on the other hand all that brake stomping pressure makes it hard to control to the millimeter with your big toe :)

I use the G25 wheel as I've yet to find a better FFB wheel. I can't live without the FFB, but in my opinion I'd be faster if I turned the forces down or off, less fighting and distraction. But I won't, I can't deal with an ECCI/TSW type constant spring wheel. Same deal as above, more enjoyable vs being faster.

And I use a Frex shifter, same reasoning as above. Yes I'd be faster if I didn't take my hands off the wheel and used paddles, but ...
The G25 shifter is cool and the buttons were handy, but it's still plasticky.

So I said all that not because it's about me, but because it should be about YOU. What do you want out of it?

And you really should get a Custom Shop Historic 57 Reissue, or a 58 Cherry Burst, your mAd sKillz will like double!

I don't necessarily think ECCI or other high quality gear will make you quicker, but you will be less frustrated. The longevity of the ECCI gear is great.

The trackstar 6000 pedals have a better feel and are easier to modulate than plastic pieces, but most people can adjust to almost anything.

They are worth it Jon, but do not expect to be any faster after an upgrade. Your "fastness" will be based on your skills more then your equipment. However, it will make you more reliable/steady/consistent as the higher quality equipment just gives you the better precision you need for racing.

Aha, I think "faster" was the wrong word to use. So alternatively would I be closer in summising that the higher quality/fidelity pots/construction/whatever will aid in the fight to find consistency? Indeed, I fully expect to go slower at first until I get used to whatever new system that I go with.

Essentially, I'm going to upgrade piece by piece because I realise that the G25 isn't going to last forever. I don't however want to go splashing out loads of extra cash on a swish bit of kit if I'm going to see little competitive improvement*. Longevity and adjustability are of course very nice deal sweeteners, but comming from a family of wheeler-dealers I tend to always look for that extra little edge.

*I guess the crux of it all is what Tim said, consistency and reliability will see more of an improvement (if any) over out-right speed. Which I can live with :D

A good wheel is important. If you have something like G25, DFP or red Momo, you're all set, seriously. I'm not sold on the black Momo after doing plenty of laps with it.

However, I think the pedals are even more critical. DFP and black Momo pedals are just rubbish, or more accurately, they lack precision AND comfort - never underestimate comfort in simracing. I have a DFP but I didn't even consider using its pedals. Luckily I had a cheap pedal alternative to use.

So, if budget is of any importance, I'd suggest getting a good wheel and great pedals. G25 and red Momo pedals may be great but since I haven't tried them, I can't comment on them.

I recently upgraded from a Logitech Momo. I was/am a proponent of FFB, so I had no expectations heading in.

I can say that the difference in steering was astounding. It is akin to watching analog tv and hi-def. You can be much more precise with your input and consistency it really makes a difference in your overall performance and not necessarily speed. I really don't miss the ffb at all anymore. I'm not just saying that because I invested in the ECCI!

As for the pedals, I had the longest adjustment period in this dept. The pedals are vastly superior to my old setup. The amount of force needed to brake is more than I had anticipated coming from the old set where I used my left big toe to do all of the braking. Not anymore. You better get your whole foot on the pedal. I, still, do not have the brake fully calibrated to 100% force. I have it set at about 85% until my leg firms up! (eeww, icky visual, I know).

The other added benefit is the adjustability of the pedals front to back, tilt and side to side. Now the pedals are always where you left them (mine are permanently attached to my racing bucket as well).

My only complaint would be the locations of the buttons on my wheel. This is not an ECCI fault so much as it is the design of the wheel that I'm using.

I have added a $4US quick release adapter to my wheel as well so I can escape and enter my seat without bumping the wheel.

I bought my entire setup (wheel/pedals and cockpit) used from folks here at R2P. I got the side benefit of meeting Tommy Christian in person in the process.

->Posted by Tommy Christian at 06:27 PM on Aug 25, 2008
"I believe (from reading) a great deal of the true "aliens" use plastic Momo pedals, they have so little resistance you can just use your toe to position the pedal exactly where you want it to a millimeter. And of course they have extreme motor control skills."

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That's true. I know that Janko uses his left pedal as a clutch on the G25 pedals. I thought I would try that, but ever since I bought G25, I've been using the brake pedal in the middle.

EDIT: No way it's worth upgrading ;)

I bought a complete system about a month ago and immediately asked myself "why didnt you buy it before?"

Since I returned from my 7 months sabbatical about 3 weeks ago, I've had 6th (got punted) and two 1st place finishes.

The Ecci wheel and pedals required quite some time to get used to, but once you get used to them, you'll find them so much more precise. I'll never buy another set again, I got wheel and pedals for a lifetime now.

If you want the wheel, you need to figure out if you want a Grant type steering wheel (fullsize/to scale wheel - Grant 1434) or a momo single-seater wheel. I have the Momo single-seater wheel (Momo Model 29).

Ok, well I'm going to start looking out for second-hand pedal sets. I think I'd like to get a three pedal setup, particularly because of the enjoyment I derive from heel-toeing around with the various vintage/classic mods that are kicking around. I've also found that I get marginally better starts using a clutch pedal rather than a mapped button.

If anyone is aware of a set available in the UK or EU I'd be interested in taking a look.