sure already said, so count this as 2 votes,
how about different level licenses ie: Openwheel class1, class2.. One must earn them prior to license "restricted" events. The license could be earned by x amount of hours in open events of said class and x laps under x time with a pro/instructor (like golf handicapping), as well as other "students' on the track (license days). Licenses could be revoked by gaining x complaints* (anonymously/easily submitted to invite use). Complaints should be highly limited to deter over use. One must complete a license test (or safety course depending on infractions :P) to be recertified in the class, before they're able to drive in a license event. This would add new dynamics,it would add exclusivity to higher licensed drivers, promote safe driving, a way to rank drivers' skill independent of dnf/disco, new sense of accomplishment.

*the grounds of infractions should be well posted and drivers should be aware of their complaints.

Anyway, safety rating sucks, its blind to intent, it deters racing.
Jury of your peers I say :P

Hi Paul. I must admit that licensing was considered way back when Todd and I were building the R2P systems. Reality is however, we all have careers in the real world and very few of us want another one online in what should be a form of entertainment.

I'm as hardcore a sim racer as anyone, but the facts are that sim-racing just isn't the same as professional racing. In real life rides are hard to come by and cost millions of dollars. Ladder systems may serve to weed the talent field. But sim-racing is not that. It's available to everyone who wants to experience that thrill. Sim-racing should be enjoyed as a great form of entertainment in the short time each day we all have after work and family.

We all want to drive the wicked cool cars that we see on TV, not some Pontiac for grandma, right? At Race2Play you can do that right away, no license needed since we have actual, live human beings watching over the events to control any skeptical drivers when needed.

"Safety ratings" are a real scary thing. It punishes those that are learning. It punishes those that makes honest mistakes (Hey, I've seen professional F1 drivers make mistakes, why aren't sim-racers allowed to?). It rewards those that cruise at the back of the pack and take no risk (since "racing" is inherently full of risk).

I'm all for hard-core realism of course, but there is a fine line between enjoying my entertainment and being frustratingly limited.

I'd love to hear more opinions though... very interesting topic.

"not some Pontiac for grandma" TM

This is my Grandma's first Pontiac, was a little slow so....

She went and got a faster one!!

I am definitely in favour of this idea, but Tim's arguments are absolutely important ones and I think, at least on R2P, the priority seems to be on fun rather than competition.

However, we've all seen post-race wars break out because someone who has a lot of experience had their race ruined by someone less experienced (or less skilled) and while I don't like to see that stuff break out, I imagine we've all had our frustrating races where we put in tons of practice and had our race ruined (at least in our own eyes) by someone who wasn't prepared adequately for the level of racing they got themselves involved in.

All I really expect is that people show up on race day capable of lapping at least somewhat consistently without constantly spinning. I want to know that the other 14-20 cars on the track with me have at least practiced enough that they know the track well and they have braking points at least in the same sort of area as everyone else.

I don't know what the solution is, and I know that turning people away from a series because they haven't proven yet that they can run it is no good.

It is definitely a tough (but interesting) subject.

Race2Work.com.... just didnt sound right :-)

lol love the pictures

If there's one thing I've seen a lot of that I do think there's a solution for, it's people who are new to R2P (not necessarily sim racing) and who come into events without knowledge of all the rules of conduct for racing with this community both in protocols and in how we drive.

I think that even if we stayed away from a graded system (Class a, b, etc), just having a simple license which shows you know the rules here and are therefore agreeing to be bound to them in the events we race here.

At first I was thinking a single license system would be best and that it would be required to enter any official events. It doesn't have to even be a demonstrated driven exam in any way, just a small written exam demonstrating an understanding of important policies etc. And you could still enter unofficial events without it to gain the practice needed to be licensed.

Then I reconsidered this, however, because I really don't think that there's ever a good reason for a driver to run any event (official or not) without knowing the rules of conduct such as understanding how our starts work and to not get into a protest with stewards without using the appropriate procedure.

So, I think after signing up, before running an event, the user should be required to answer a basic quiz on important rules.

If deemed positive, there could be two licenses. The first (mentioned above) is a learners license or permit or something and can get drivers into exhibitions or independent events (if the ind chapter configures a series to require only a learners permit). Then a regular license which could have slightly more advanced requirements (such as some number of required exhbition or independent events driven) to be fully licensed and then begin competing in official events. Even if the requirement was 2 or 3 exhibitions before being fully licensed, it could be a positive thing to do.

I haven't been in a large number of races myself, but I've seen plenty of times where a driver (even experienced ones) has spoken during qualifying or a race session or has challenged stewards during or following a race as opposed to using the correct procedures. One race recently a driver had an incident which caused him to DNF right at the start and after a few minutes into a race session he complained that he had expected a restart. If he had at least simply read our rules he would have known not to expect a restart nor to say anything about it at that time.

Not reading the rules has always been my biggest complaint. Running the Ind. Chapter has proved to me that some people either do not read the rules or have read them but just forgot them for what ever reason. I like the idea of atleast having a simple test that everyone has to take that is questions based on the rules here. That way you know atleast the did atleast half way read them to get the answers correct.

Tim and I continue this discussion on a semiregular basis. At the heart of it is the unasked question, "How can we have trouble-free events?"

The analysis always comes down that a licensing or ladder system certainly won't do it, if it's even at all possible.

Take a look at real life: The pros have risen to the top of the highest ladders, achieved the highest licensing possible ... Their mistakes are at the risk of millions of dollars and their very lives and well-being ... Yet every weekend, every race, one or more of these guys can be seen either spinning across the track or plowing into others. It's the inherent nature of racing itself, of riding machines at their limits around others doing the same, of making constant judgments in split-second timing.

Follow that to sim racing. Race2Play drivers include guys who certainly would qualify for any of the highest licenses available ... And there isn't a one who could tell you he's never spun the car, never made a mistake, never been the cause of an incident.

Tim and I examined these systems in both the real world and the sim world, and the analysis was unavoidable: Incidents continued to happen at every single level. It comes down that in sim racing a ladder system only serves to impose artificial limitations on what people may enjoy while not actually solving the underlying issue.

So what can we do? We have a system of optimum rules for good racing, sure, but have yet to think of something with better effect than the live Stewards. Because of these guys' individual efforts certain problems have been caught in practice and qualifying before they got to the race. Because of these guys' collective judgment certain problems even have been asked to leave R2P.

Regardless of what we think about that guy who spun and collected us, the overwhelming majority of drivers are qualified to take the track with the right to give it a go. Can we prevent mistakes from happening in the heat of it all? No one can, not at any level. But all things considered, given all of racing, I think Race2Play produces some of the highest quality events and series possible under the circumstances.

Now, about not knowing the rules in the first place ... That's something else and well worth considering. Good thoughts there.

I am not one who reads rules, No reason not to until I get dinged for breaking them. No excuse I know. But I think an acceptance page registering to the site of the rules would help. It's not 100 percent that they or I would have read it , but that leaves no room for excuses when it's in our faces.They or I would have to hit the accept button to enter.

Edited:

I even seen this type of enterance to a site that they had to read the rules to find a code to enter the site. The code was on a randon generator.. Overboard I know but I guess they needed to do it.