In our pre-race thread for St. Jovite, Bill DeMars has indicated that he feels like he's struggling mightily trying to come up to speed.

Several folks have made posts offering suggestions, and Bryce Aston had one of the best suggestions -- he suggested that Bill download some hot laps and watch from various perspectives to get a feel for braking points, turn-in markers, apex locations, etc..

This really is a great suggestion -- replays have helped me go faster in a lot of other sims (the GPLReplayAnalyzer application for Grand Prix Legends is perhaps the BEST tool ever for learning how to go faster . . . too bad nobody has replicated it for GTR2).

GTR2 does have some inherent shortcomings in the replay department, though -- you can't see RPMs, gears, or speed, and you can't hear tyre/braking noises properly when viewing replays, effectively leaving you with just a visual representation of what a fast lap LOOKS like.

In an attempt to try to make up for some of these shortcomings while trying to draw one of my GPL friends into the PnG fold, I've tried a slightly different approach. Basically, I run a short session at a given track with a given car in Time Trial mode and then save the Time Trial for the fastest lap of the session. When I exit the session the game then saves the fastest lap (which matches the Time Trial file) as the Hot Lap. I then give the Hot Lap replay a meaninful name and exit the game. Then I bundle the renamed replay file and the corresponding Time Trial file AND my setup file into a zipfile and send it off to my buddy.

He then places the Time Trial file in his Time Trial folder, and the replay file in his replay folder, and the setup file in his setup folder. Then he can view the replay to get an idea of what a fast lap should look like from an in-car driver's perspective, and he can view the replay from various angles to see my turn-in points and braking points and such. I also recommend using the "swingman" camera and the camera controls to zoom out and then pan the camera to a viewpoint that's directly overhead. This allows you a bird's-eye overhead view of the car and track, which will give you a VERY good idea of what line to follow through the turn, and you can see where you're actually turning in versus where you SHOULD be turning-in. By comparing this overhead view to the cockpit view, you can start to integrate stuff that you might not be catching in the heat of the moment on the track.

Then, after viewing the replay and getting a feel for what it looks like, my buddy can go into Time Trial mode himself, grab my setup if he doesn't have a setup he's already comfortable with, then he loads MY Time Trial file that goes with the hot lap replay, and then -- VIOLA! -- he's able to actually chase my ghost car to try to actually find the best line, braking points, turn-in points, etc.. The great thing about following a ghost car in Time Trial mode versus following an AI car in testing is that the AI doesn't always follow the right lines, and if you follow an AI car too closely and make contact a potentially good lap could be ruined (and your frustration can go through the roof). With a ghost car in Time Trial mode, all you have to do is watch the track and follow the ghost, with no worries of contact if (or WHEN) you actually start to go faster.

The only drawback is you WILL need to remember to distinguish between running THROUGH a ghost car in practice and trying NOT to run INTO a real car during a race. Other than that, though, this approach can really help lessen the learning curve considerably.

If any of you would be interested in participating in something like this -- either as a "pupil" or as an "instructor" willing to generate replays, setups, and Time Trial files for specific cars and tracks -- please post your comments here. Something like this could prove to be a fun side project for our league activities, with driver/mentor combos paired-up in similar cars, for example.

Also, if anybody would be interested in seeing an example using St. Jovite and the 289 Corba, I would be willing to try to post some files tonight -- just let me know if you're interested in seeing how this works firsthand and I'll try to find a place to post the necessary files for download.

John, I love everything about your idea.

However.

GTR2 has another glaring fault. In Time Trial mode, you have much more grip than you do in any other mode, let alone on a server. So while a method you describe like this would indeed be very helpful in teaching someone how to get up to the fast speed provided in an example, it will prove a false model for when the student gets on a 'true grip' track, especially if that is a server. As you might imagine, braking and turn in points, as well as subsequent braking and cornering grip will be measurably off, and so the process will have been largely in vain.

A damn shame, too. If the grip levels were consistent, then a ghost car target would be the brilliant way to train.

Interesting detail about grip levels in Time Trial mode -- I wasn't aware of that! Sounds like something that should be mod-able, though.

Time to start digging through the files again, I guess. Any idea if this is a grip level parameter in the track file, or is this tied to the Time Trial function directly?

EDITED TO ADD: Found some good info here on Time Trial mode and PnG:

http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44953&highlight=Timetrial

It sounds like the real problem comes when you run in Time Trial mode with the "Skip Outlap" option enabled creates a situation where your tyre pressure is VERY low for the PnG cars. Seems like the tyre compound used might also be in question. Still, if you simply disable the "Skip Outlap" option, it sounds as though the laps will be fairly close to what you would run with extra-soft ("qualifying"?) tyres. The end result might be a bit deceptive in terms of actual potential on race day, but this still seems like a decent method to help reduce the initial learning curve for someone who's struggling.

On the subject of variable grip levels, I've found that time of day has a HUGE impact on grip levels -- practice in the morning or the evening yields much different laptimes than practice at mid-day, for example.

I think it's tied directly to Time Trial mode, because the game tries to artifically heat the tires as if you'd been driving multiple hot laps when you start a time trial.

Still, I think there is probably some value to giving it a try. As long as the driver recording the lap is working from what he knows through driving the track online, he can target an appropriately timed lap without too much trouble. The driver following the example will be working to match the ghost lap, not maximize a mythical lap in the altered TT environment.

Mike makes a good point.

To expand... regardless of the variable grip, an instructor laying down a model lap should do so according to what they know is the correct form (as opposed to increasing their pace according to the inflated grip levels). Since the ghost car also records the path, and displays via color coded sections the throttle-on, throttle-off, and brake zones on that path, the student can work to emulate this. Once the student can consistently beat the ghost lap (which would indicate they've exceeded the accuracy limit of the training) they are ready for the next step.

By becoming accurate, and then developing consistency, the student can then take this training on to a server (or at least under offline practice/race mode) and develop their speed under correct grip conditions.

I would think that this would accelerate the learning process a great deal.

Still a great initial idea John.

Thanks for the feedback and discussion, guys -- I think that with an "instructor" following the guidelines that you guys have outlined (running a race pace and not taking advantage of the exaggerated grip levels available), this could indeed be a good learning assist. I haven't fully explored the Time Trial capabilities, so I typically run with the color-coded track sections turned off -- I wasn't even aware that those "assists" were present, so thanks for pointing that out Pete!

Using those enhancements, I could see this turning out to be a good way to help other guys figure things out quickly.

I'll try to generate and upload some files tonight for my fellow snake charmers (i.e., the other Cobra drivers).

Okay guys, here's the pilot effort -- I've put together a Time Trial file, a replay file, and my setup file and bundled them in a zipfile with a readme file -- you can grab it here:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=DY1O3IK4

Check it out and let me know what you think -- we should be able to re-use the enclosed readme file for any similar "Driving School" sessions that we put together.

Now I've got to go mow my grass (literally!). Enjoy!

Too bad you guys are not using GTR Evo. I use the time attack mode in Evo to see how faster laps are done and where they are faster than me.

The time attacks are even downloadable right from within the game.

If someone has Evo, and Evo has the track you want to learn, you may just want to run it with some of the faster time attacks to see the line and hear the engine of the other car - you can always turn your engine sounds down and other car engine sounds up if needed to hear them more.

The problem though is that the PnG mod is for GTR2. Not much help to learn modern cars in order to race a historic.

Sounds like with the "Time Attack" feature GTR Evo has incorporated essentially the same feature directly into the game engine that we're trying to achieve here manually by sharing "Time Trial" files. The one advantage to our method is that you not only have the ability to see a good line on-track by following the ghost car in "Time Trial" mode, you also have the ability to view that same lap as a replay and to study it from different angles to analyze an ideal line compared to what you're running (via viewing your own replay files).